Friday, February 29, 2008
Dems to Get Tough on Immigration? I Sure Hope Not
Sam Stein at the Huffington Post has an interesting post positing that Democrats may soon be taking tougher position on immigration. A confidential study put together by key think tanks close to the party leadership, urges Democrats to adopt more rigid rhetoric when discussing immigration by encouraging office-holders to emphasize "requiring immigrants to become legal" rather than stressing border enforcement and the opening of a path to legalization for the undocumented already here.
Hope the candidates, at a minimum, stay the(ir) course(s) on immigration.
KJ
https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/immigration/2008/02/dems-to-get-tou.html
Comments
The new novel, Uncle Juan's Cabin, tracks fictional characters through border crossings,undocumented work, amnesty, terrorist group formations, kangaroo courts, media hysteria, and even anti-government plots by extreme groups. Set in 2010, this story MAY be a precursor of things to come??
Posted by: growmedia Blogger | Mar 1, 2008 2:20:49 PM
Immigrant-bashing worked so well for Republican candidates -- in the *Republican* primaries! -- that John McCain was elected the nominee. Now the Democrats should heed that failed political policy?? Sounds like Rahm Emmanuel's thinking.
Posted by: Chris | Mar 1, 2008 2:59:08 PM
The new novel, Uncle Juan's Cabin, tracks fictional characters through border crossings,undocumented work, amnesty, terrorist group formations, kangaroo courts, media hysteria, and even anti-government plots by extreme groups. Set in 2010, this story MAY be a precursor of things to come??
Posted by: growmedia Blogger | Mar 1, 2008 3:35:10 PM
The new novel, Uncle Juan's Cabin, tracks fictional characters through border crossings,undocumented work, amnesty, terrorist group formations, kangaroo courts, media hysteria, and even anti-government plots by extreme groups. Set in 2010, this story MAY be a precursor of things to come??
Posted by: growmedia Blogger | Mar 1, 2008 3:37:52 PM
They have no choice professor. All those states which have passed legislation countering illegal immigration could not have done so if their legislators did not have the support of their electorate. Hispanic opposition in those states was unable to gain any support at all outside the Latino community. State laws in Arizona, Oklahoma, et al are standing scrutiny by the courts, and ACLU early successes will likely be overturned. Illegal alien advocates have only been successful at the federal level, where congressmen and the presidential candidates will say anything to get the Hispanic vote. However, once the elections are over it's extremely doubtful that these same congressmen will overlook state actions and act against the will of their constituencies. Their avowals to enact so-called comprehensive reform by the candidates for president will fade into recriminations when the elections are over. And it's easier for congress to do nothing than take a chance at offending the majority electorate.
Posted by: Horace | Mar 1, 2008 6:00:03 PM
I have no problem with illegal immigrants, but I fail to see why they should get to go to the front of the line past legal immigrants stuck back in their countries, some of whom are married to US citizens and have been waiting to be able to come in for years. Let them come in, but let them go to the back of the line and come in legally like everyone else. I have a highly skilled friend in the UK who would take at least a year to secure an American visa, yet anyone from Mexico can just walk over... it's not quite a fair system.
Posted by: Libertarian Girl | Mar 1, 2008 8:19:45 PM
To Horace, I refer you to review how the anti-illegal immigrant legislation has been working out for states that have gone down that ill-advised path. For example, Colorado got into that game early on, and destroyed their agra-businesses, among others. Crops were left to rot in the fields, and they had to resort to prison labor, which was a fiasco. This year, the state legislators are trying to pass new legislation aimed at going over the federal "heads" and directly trying to work out agreements with Mexico, et al, to expedite H2 labor to try to save the businesses that they destroyed when they shot themselves in the foot with their short sighted ordinances. States like Texas have been flooded by Arizona's undocumented workers, who have fled Arizona's harsh new anti-illegal immigrant laws. This is going to work out very badly for Arizona as well. Just because some states were manipulated by the anti-immigrant frenzy, doesn't mean that they were right, it just means that they were duped, and they will all soon be scrambling to fix their self-caused problems soon, just as Colorado is doing now.
As to Libertarian Girl, it's easy to say that "they should just go to the end of the line." But in reality, what does that mean for Mexicans, for example, since they make up by far the largest illegal population here? Do you realize that there actually is no line, per say, unless you have a parent or relative to petition for you. If you were lucky enough to have had a parent petition for you in 1992, you would just now become eligible to adjust. That's a 16 year wait for the lucky few that had the good fortune to have had a parent with the foresight to pay for their application over a decade and a half ago. Now, if we were to "ask" all illegal immigrants to go back and wait their turn, the added 10,000,000 or so to Mexico's fictional line would add at minimum another decade to the 16 year wait. That's if they are lucky enough to have a petitioner, which many don't. So, in effect, when we say, "go to the end of the line", we are really saying, "come back in 25 years or so, if you are still alive." In reality, is that practical? Would that work? Would anybody leave voluntarily, in the hopes of getting a job picking lettuce here just in time for their retirement?
If rhetoric sounds good, but isn't feasible or practical, then it's just empty rhetoric, isn't it? This is a real problem. We don't need fictional solutions. We need solutions that will solve the problem, not make it worse.
Posted by: Robert Gittelson | Mar 2, 2008 5:05:07 PM
"This year, the state legislators are trying to pass new legislation aimed at going over the federal "heads" and directly trying to work out agreements with Mexico, et al, to expedite H2 labor to try to save the businesses that they destroyed when they shot themselves in the foot with their short sighted ordinances.'
Just think how better off the farmers of Colorado, and the rest of the country, would be today if they had decided to push this issue years ago, the right way, through the legislative process, or by use of currently existing work visa programs. What's happened recently is just an example of how violating the law hurts everyone. What's happening to the farmers is just punishment for their complacency. And I believe you are exaggerating the situation in Colorado, as I've only heard of a few unconfirmed reports of such occurrences. Frankly, I rather have these farmers learn a lesson than continue the lawlessness that has existed overy the years. This will strengthen our nation in the long run, as scoffing at our laws and appeasing law breakers can only lead to disrespect for law and order and weakening of our legal system. As representative Robert Goodloe Harper, in an address at a banquet for John Marshall, on June 18, 1798, said, "Millions for defence, but not a cent for tribute" when referring to the extortive efforts of the Barbary Pirates. This man was stating that our principles would not be compromised by caving in to those who would extort concessions from our country. I believe that this is how Americans feel about the demands of the Hispanic advocacy groups today, who find themselves clearly at odds with our constitutionally enacted immigration laws. If these farmers go under it will be by their own hands, and they will no doubt be replaced by others with more integrity.
I am very confident that your predictions of gloom and doom will not pan out. If there are any inconveniences to Arizona and Oklahoma, I'm sure they will eventually be worked out to the satisfaction of the American people.
I recommend that you read "The Immigration Solution: A Better Plan Than Today's" by Heather Mac Donald, Victor Davis Hanson and Steven Malanga, Ivan R. Dee, publisher, copyright 2007. It gives the reader a more sane perspective of illegal immigration than is offered by those waving the white flag to illegal immigrants and their supporters.
Posted by: Horace | Mar 2, 2008 6:29:01 PM
"Do you realize that there actually is no line, per say, unless you have a parent or relative to petition for you. If you were lucky enough to have had a parent petition for you in 1992, you would just now become eligible to adjust. That's a 16 year wait for the lucky few that had the good fortune to have had a parent with the foresight to pay for their application over a decade and a half ago."
Mr. Gittelson: Isn't this the situation that all prospective immigrants find themselves in? Why should Mexicans be given preference over all others? What kind of impact would permitting entire families of uneducated poor and endless chain immigration of the same have on this country? How many of them would ultimately apply for welfare supplements and EITCs to bring their standard of living up to levels acceptable to social scientists? And why should we non-Hispanic citizens be interested in paying the additional taxes required for this purpose? Our current immigration policies are designed to prevent this, but you would have us throw them out the window for the sake of a foreign element that's imposed themselves upon us.
If there are negative repercussions to those who'd return to Mexico, it is up to the Mexican government to take care of them. Perhaps they can apply to the UN for resettlement assistance. It's common knowledge that much of Mexico's economic problems stem from its own phobia of permitting foreign investment into their economy. The fact that the incompetent and corrupt Mexican government would rather let their oil industry tank before permitting outside investment is indicative of the self-defeating attitude that keeps their people in poverty. Time for a social revolution in Mexico, an event that will never occur unless their government experiences the pressure of their people.
It is very feasible to send these people home, by causing them to self-deport. Arizona's illegal immigrants are already on the move to Texas and elsewhere,some even returning to Mexico. Illegal alien Brazilians are already returning to Brazil. Texas is considering legislation, which if enacted will cause another move. This is happening in state after state, after state. Soon, with perhaps the exception of Mexifornia, it will impossible for an illegal alien to find employment and a refuge. And when Mexifornia's patience runs out, as it becomes overrun with unemployed illegal aliens, there will be no place to run, except for the old country. I'm afraid that the advocacy groups refrain that they won't go home regardless of the employment situation is just so much propaganda meant to discourage governmental action.
Posted by: Horace | Mar 2, 2008 7:16:18 PM
Horace makes a valid point, in that mass deportations and/or the attrition solution would eventually solve the problem, albiet with a lot of pain, hardship, negative geopolitical ramifications, and costly economic consequences. In the end, our country would survive. However, we can also solve the probelm humanely, quickly, and painlessly, by building a real and secure fence, implementing verifiable workplace enforcement, and legalizing the undocumented immigrants that can pass a background check, pay their back taxes, if any, and pay a penalty to get right with the law, if they can prove that they came here prior to a certain cut off date, with acceptable and verifiable documentation.
I would rather go with the later approach, instead of "teaching a lesson" to the poor workers who came here to escape poverty and feed their families.
Posted by: Robert Gittelson | Mar 2, 2008 8:35:06 PM
Any future administration should take illegal immigration and the illegal population in the U.S. very seriously. Blanket amnesty for those that have ignored our immigration laws is not going to happen no matter who becomes President. We have learned from history (1986) that amnesty alone will lead to the same end result, an invasion of more illegal aliens getting in place for the next amnesty. Enforcement through attrition is the only way to make illegal aliens return to their country of origin, that is after all U.S. borders are secured.
Posted by: EYES OF TEXAS | Feb 29, 2008 1:14:22 PM