Tuesday, August 11, 2015
Was Adnan Requesting a Ride From Hae From Track Practice on January 13, 1999?
I've been asked a lot recently about the possibility that the ride Adnan requested from Hae on January 13, 1999 could have been a ride to track practice. As I noted again yesterday, Adnan got these rides from Hae frequently, even after they had broken up in December. What I hadn't considered until today was the possibility that the requested ride might have been a ride from track practice.
I was looking through the notes of police interviews with faculty and staff at Woodlawn High School. One of these interviews was with the secretary to the principal:
The interview covered two subjects. The first was the trip that Adnan's father took with Alfreda Gil to pick up Adnan's school work so that Adnan could continue his studies. The secretary apparently thought that Gil was a defense investigator and took down her license plate number, leading to her phone records being subpoenaed the day after the secretary's interview:
The second subject was rides that Hae gave to Adnan. According to the secretary:
Did Hae similarly pick Adnan up from track practice, both before and after they broke up? It would seem to make some sense, given that the track at Woodlawn surrounds the football field.*
Krista has said that the ride that Adnan requested from Hae was a ride to his car. If the requested ride was a ride from track practice, this ride could have taken one of two forms. First, let's assume that Adnan did not know he was loaning Jay his car when he asked for the ride from Hae. In this scenario, Adnan could have been requesting a ride to his car similar to the ones that Hae used to give him from football practice (presumably to his own car).*
Second, if Adnan knew he was going to loan his car to Jay when he asked for the ride from Hae:
-if Jay was supposed to return Adnan's car to school before the end of track practice, it could have been a ride to Adnan's car at Woodlawn (similar to the rides that Hae ostensibly gave to Adnan after football practice); or
-if Jay was not supposed to return Adnan's car to school before the end of track practice, it could have been a ride to wherever Jay had the car.
Was the requested ride? I don't know, but it's certainly a possibility to consider.
_____________________
*According to Coach Sye, practice was seemingly held at the track on January 13th.
-CM
https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/evidenceprof/2015/08/i.html
Comments
Why are police issuing a subpoena for phone records for a person who merely accompanied Adnans father to the school to pick up schoolwork? What is the legal basis for the detectives obtaining this random persons phone records? And yet, the detectives couldn't be bothered to get Jay or Jenns phone records.
Posted by: Pdxkat | Aug 11, 2015 5:15:15 PM
This was during the period when Bilal was testifying before the grand jury. Perhaps there was information from Bilal's testimony or phone records that led police to look more into Gill using the grand jury powers?
Posted by: Nine9fifty50 | Aug 11, 2015 8:28:58 PM
I noticed that "Ms. Gil" is also mentioned in the police notes of the interview of "Mrs. Kramer" on 3-24-99. Kramer describes Gil as stating that she would be counseling Adnan and requesting information on Adnan's interactions with students and teachers.
Posted by: Nine9fifty50 | Aug 11, 2015 9:01:32 PM
Well we should just ask Adnan? Seems like he would know whether he asked for a ride too or from practice. After all he did tell the detectives that he did ask for a ride... But he didn't get one because "He was held up and I guess she got tired of waiting?" Which is an odd comment in itself. no?
Posted by: Paul | Aug 11, 2015 10:43:59 PM
How many more episodes of Undisclosed are planned? I guess I didn't realize that there would be a finite number until this most recent podcast and the call for other cases.
Posted by: jennifer | Aug 12, 2015 3:11:47 AM
Greg: I’ve been thinking about that theory a lot lately. I think it’s a good one.
Pdxkat: That’s a great question.
Nine9fifty50: We will have an episode on the grand jury proceeding. I’ve seen nothing in the records that says anything about Alfreda Gil. As for Kramer’s statements, I explained this in my post (and Rabia explained it on the podcast). Alfreda Gil accompanied Adnan’s father to Woodlawn and helping him collect as much information as possible from Adnan’s teachers and fellow students so that Adnan could complete his senior year. I have no idea why that would lead to her phone records being subpoenaed.
Paul: I would love to know exactly what Adnan told Adcock. We seemingly have 3 objective people saying that Hae turned Adnan down for a ride at the end of the school day.
jennifer: Probably 4-5 full episodes and as many Addenda.
Posted by: Colin | Aug 12, 2015 3:15:52 AM
However, reading the limited notes from Kramer's interview - the interaction between Gil and Kramer and others at the school sounds much more contentious than Gil merely accompanying Adnan's father to WHS. The interaction caused the secretary to feel she needed to take down Gil's license plate number and pass this on to the police when they were later interviewed.
Posted by: Nine9fifty50 | Aug 12, 2015 7:57:28 AM
Nine9fifty50: It seems like Gil wanted information from the teachers and students so that Adnan could complete his education. Gil asked for it to be faxed to her, and the secretary seemed unwilling. Gil then said she would talk to the teachers but ended up agreeing to have the information faxed to her. Or something like that. The notes are unclear. It doesn't seem like it was that big of a deal.
Posted by: Colin | Aug 12, 2015 8:14:13 AM
Someone over at ATT needs to find the incoming call logs. Of all the energy we all spend the answer is surely there. I have a hard time imagining that they have been distroyed especially since they were requested in a murder investigation.
Posted by: Paul | Aug 12, 2015 12:42:33 PM
Could we be asking the wrong question of AT&T - are we asking 'do you keep records of call logs from that far back?' (Answer: No) When we should be asking 'Do you keep records of call logs you submit in response to subpoenas?' (Answer...?)
Posted by: Cupcake | Aug 12, 2015 2:06:25 PM
If there was a genuine question of whether Ms. Gil was a defence investigator, wouldn't the police believe her records to be covered by legal privilege?
Is there any information on the supenoa (presumably issued by the Grand Jury) and how the police demonstrated probable cause?
Posted by: Alex | Aug 13, 2015 2:27:33 AM
Much has been said and speculated about Adnan asking Hae for a ride and what all those implications could mean. After thinking about this and considering some points made on Reddit here is my theory that accounts for Adnan both asking for a ride and not asking for a “ride”.
Adnan and Hae were in the magnet program. I believe now these classes were held in the schools addition located on the south side of the campus. Included with that school addition was a new parking lot where magnet students would park. Presumably this is where Hae parked.
I believed as a matter of course and without being asked every day Hae gave Adnan a ride to the indoor track gym where she bought her snacks before leaving campus to pick up her cousin. This ride makes sense as it doesn’t deter her from her tight schedule after school. She is going there anyway.
On January 13th track practice was not at the indoor track but at the outdoor track. I believe Adnan asked Hae for a ride to outdoor track practice. Hae originally agrees since it doesn’t add too much time, but later in the day has to decline because “something came up” (wouldn’t we love to know what that was) Adnan’s response of “No problem, I will ask someone else” is simply him suggesting he can ask another magnet student to drop him off at track around the block on their way home. He can also easily walk to track practice as a second option or go to the library since he has some time.
When questioned later Adnan states that he would know better than to ask Hae for a more involved ride. This makes sense. I don’t think he thought these very short trips around the campus as rides that would hold Hae up.
Adnan states that he wouldn’t need a ride anyway because he had his car at school. This has been frequently been pointed to as a lie, but let’s look at the police notes. Detective Ritz notes that Jeff G took Jay to Woodlawn at 3pm. (per Jay) Jeff would be there for Jay to get a ride home since he is leaving Adnan’s car back at the school.
So it is possible that:
He did ask for a ride to track.
He didn’t ask for a ride off campus.
His car was at campus around 3pm close to the time Hae left and before track practice.
Thoughts?
Posted by: Greg | Aug 11, 2015 11:44:26 AM