Monday, January 9, 2023
Happy New Year ASP Blog Readers! We are back!
Earlier today I was in a meeting with colleagues who told me that several publishers had not brought ASP/Bar Prep publications to the AALS meetings because, (and keep in mind that this probably hearsay squared), “AALS is for doctrinal faculty.” AALS abolished the distinction years ago, but perhaps that message has not reached all sectors. And while I could easily lament another occasion where academic support is overlooked and excluded, today I have another proposition.
I have written in the past about how U.S. News Rankings count the work of academic support and bar prep professionals (bar pass rate!!!), but they do not evaluate the programs themselves. This is, I have argued, essentially taxation without representation.
Recently a few schools that probably do not sweat the bar pass rate (let’s be honest here, it is always going to be in the over 90% area for them), have decided not to engage in rankings. These schools just don’t need the credential to boost their marketability or community standing. They already have all the name and prestige recognition they need. They just shuffle among the top tier like a tableau of rich invitees at a Gatsby event. But, as I tell students fairly often, 90% of the class in not in the top 10%. So too for law schools -- as a vast majority of schools are not invited to the West Egg shindigs.
After attending an amazing conference organized by the New England Consortium of Academic Support Professionals where we discussed job security, equity, and even reached for the brass ring of tenure, I am convinced that having academic support programs ranked by U.S. News might be a step in the right direction.
Here are my top three reasons:
- This would be another metric for schools looking to gain status, meaning that schools that really do need a boost can get one, and
- It might shift a power dynamic to a successful (and therefore ranked) academic support program’s professionals to seek better job security (contracts where they are at-will employees, presumptively renewable contracts for those on a year-to-year contract, and tenure down the road.) A school that gains prestige because of a ranked ASP program would want to protect that asset.
- ASP professionals work extremely hard-we teach more, we meet more, we write as much (if not more), and we are often asked to take on responsibilities that are similar to doctrinal, legal writing, and clinical faculty. We deserve the recognition-beyond the amazing way we honor each other in our community.
But there are some downsides:
- More scrutiny doesn’t always reveal only good things. We might put folks with very little job security in a more precarious position and introduce metrics that are not necessarily indicative of quality academic support. This might turn out to be another area where BIPOC professionals are not fairly evaluated.
- ASP will now be tethered to raising or maintaining a ranking--which is not the point of ASP. This might distract us from our students, who are the reason we do what we do.
- Being tied to the bar pass rate more directly may not be fair since some of the variables that control bar pass rate are not within the control of ASP. We cannot overcome a poorly admitted class, or a pandemic, for example.
I invite debate on this idea. I would also happily invite the beginning of a national movement of ASP professionals to work together toward more equity and job security. If we take any page from legal writing, the one I believe is foundational would be that we gather our data and work together.
Monday, June 13, 2022
My Law School course evaluations arrived without warning or fanfare in my inbox Saturday afternoon. The subject line, “spring 2022 course evaluations” popped up on my phone while I was sitting at the optometrist’s office picking out a new pair of glasses that would (ironically) make reading things on my phone easier. I had received my course evals for my undergraduate course a few weeks back and they had come, pre-read by the department chair, with her encouraging words that slowed my heartbeat a bit before diving in. But the law school ones just showed up as an attachment: unannounced, and to be honest, panic inducing. I wasn’t ready. We tell students when the grades will be released, so perhaps a similar warning may be warranted. As it was, I held my breath and clicked.
To be fair, I had thought the semester had gone well (there are always a few students who are unreadable, but they didn’t seem hostile), so I should not have started to sweat when this email appeared. But I was grateful for the air conditioning at the eyeglass shop, nonetheless. Although the literature is a bit all over the place, there seems to be a grudging consensus that, “… student evaluations as currently constructed are strewn with gender and racial biases. Instructor attire and weight has impacts on student evaluations, too. In short, there is a lot of noise in student evaluations that have nothing to do with teaching and everything to do with student biases.” I also think that the anonymous on-line iteration of course evaluations has made students a little more, um, blunt.
I have had evaluations that commented negatively on my snacking (I was pregnant, and it seemed better to eat my baggie of Cheerios rather than puke on students), my sense of humor, and my clothing choices (which honestly felt more like body shaming). It all feels a little middle school-ish to me because this is the documentation of what people might be saying behind your back. I also remember my favorite comment of all time, “Condragulations Professor Stillman, you are a winner.” Using a RuPaul’s Drag race reference made me feel really seen and I treasured it.
Are some evaluations biased or just plain mean? Probably. But discounting them entirely also negates the good ones (luckily far outnumbering the bad, I’m sure). I also need to read them to know if I am connecting with students. I want to be sure that I am respectful of opposing viewpoints (not my strong suit, really). If I don’t care what the students think (about some fundamental things, not my wardrobe per se), then I am not teaching for the right reasons. If the evaluations can legitimately assess my teaching, then this is information I need. If not, they give students power over non-tenured faculty that they do not deserve.
Evaluations are truly a double-edged sword. Make no mistake though, they may still be a weapon.
Monday, April 25, 2022
This semester I changed up my assessments for my undergraduate law class. In the past, I had done oral arguments as a final assessment, but after witnessing paralyzing anxiety from more than a couple of students last semester, I decided that I was assessing mental health rather than legal argumentation skills. No one should be graded that way. So, this semester, students are writing a judicial opinion (pretending to be a U.S. Supreme Court justice) in the case of Carson v. Makin. This is a fun case for my undergraduates because it took place here in the First Circuit (nearby in Maine) and it is about high school (also temporally nearby for undergrads). The case is about Maine’s program for students in very rural areas that do not have a local public high school. Maine’s law allows parents to choose another public school in a different district, or a private school so long as the private school meets certain criteria in terms of state required curriculum, attendance, and our sticking point: that the school is “non-sectarian”. The case is a great example of free exercise clause litigation and students are really getting into it, but the very complicated issue of standing is one I have had to take off their plate because it is a bit too much for students who have not taken a course in Federal Courts. Essentially, the plaintiffs are parents who would like to send their kids to sectarian schools but because of the Maine law, they haven’t even tried to use the tuition assistance program. The schools that the parents want to send their children to have not agreed to follow Maine's other requirements either. So, you may be asking, how have they been injured? The attorneys for Maine asked this as well, in more than one case, and each time the District Court and First Circuit found that there was standing because, “[T]he plaintiffs’ injury in fact inheres in their having lost the “opportunity.”" It seems a little like tap dancing in the rain to find standing here, but there it is: a lost opportunity is sufficient injury to get the case before a court.
This decision made me think that we may be injuring our students who are on Academic Warning, Probation, guided curriculum, or whatever your school might call it. We do, of course, intend to help these students in terms of bar readiness and supervision to prevent further academic mishaps. We have a compelling academic interest in having students take this path. Our studies and experience show that it works. I really have no doubt that our process does improve our students’ chances overall. To that end, we have students take bar tested courses like Evidence, Commercial Law, Family Law, and Trusts and Estates once they have a GPA below a certain threshold.
But…these students are required to take another set of large, grade-curved classes that tend to have one high-stakes summative assessment at the end. This might be where things initially went wrong for them, so more of it may just dig the hole deeper for some. We also occupy their schedules with required courses that monopolize their time and credits each semester. Students in academic difficulty do not often get the green light to take a credit overload. There is less space, after satisfying the requirements, for courses that are not bar tested and may have alternate assessment schemes. Students who do well in their first year can then go on to choose courses that allow them to keep up or substantially improve their already good GPAs. Students flagged for warning or probation after the first year have a much harder time moving up in class rankings in subsequent years. Students in academic difficulty know that on-campus recruiting is not going to even consider them. Clinical opportunities may also be lost because of scheduling or because of academic status or both. Some students really need to take the engine apart and put it back together to understand how it works-and some students need to see what lawyering really is to reignite their underlying enthusiasm for continuing in law school. There is a hopelessness we are creating because these opportunities are lost.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating that we abandon this process altogether. We do students a grave disservice if they are misled throughout law school to believe that they are on track for bar passage only to fail. We similarly do students no favors by continuing to take their tuition money when law school is clearly not for them. Perhaps, though, we can re-evaluate our methods. There are no easy answers here-just a request to be mindful of students who feel that they are drifting further away even as we are throwing them a lifesaver. They don’t want to just survive; they want the opportunity to get back on the ship.
 Carson v. Makin, 979 F.3d 21 (1st. Cir. 2020)
 Me. Stat. tit. 20–A, § 2(1) (2022).
 Carson, 979 F.3d at 26.
 Id. at 30 (citing Eulitt v. Me. Dept. of Educ., 386 F.3d 344 (1st. Cir. 2004)).
How’s my citation? Call 1-800-Bluebook to report it.
 Is this ideal for bar passage? Perhaps not.
Sunday, October 31, 2021
Raise your hand if you told your child to do something, they ignored you, and then 2 days later they thought someone else was brilliant for telling them the same thing (go ahead, raising your hand can be therapeutic). Raise your hand if you provided a piece of advice to a law student, they didn't fully buy in, and then they "discovered" the same piece of advice later that semester from someone else.
Most of us probably don't have another hand to hold up, so I will stop there. I don't think ignoring our advice is malicious or failing to trust the speaker. Sometimes, people need more persuasion to make changes. Sometimes, a different way of conveying the same information helps people. Either way, new or different perspectives help.
New or different perspectives help ASPers as well. The regional ASP conferences are starting with registrations and calls for proposals. I encourage everyone to think of a proposal and submit at least 1 this year. You are doing amazing things in the classroom and individually with students. Share that with the rest of us. I understand many people worry they aren't doing unique things. First, don't sell yourself short because you are creating unique experiences for students. Also, you may be able to provide a perspective others haven't seen or explain a different way to teach something that would help others. Our community continually improves as we share ideas, activities, perspectives, and challenges together. You can help contribute to that progress.
We tell our students to stretch beyond their comfort zone. I encourage many in ASP to stretch as well. It will help you and many of us improve student experiences.
Wednesday, October 13, 2021
Maya Angelou wrote “we are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike.” One of my favorite songs right now is Bleed the Same by Mandisa where she conveys a similar message. I believe the message from both of them would apply to the current discussion surrounding factors impacting bar passage rates.
Most of you are aware Rory Bahadur wrote a series of articles examining the relationship between certain factors and bar passage rates. He specifically questions whether FIU’s emergence as the leader in Florida’s bar pass rate is significantly impacted by factors such as involuntary attrition, incoming transfers, and incoming credentials. An oversimplification of his conclusion is that these factors have a major impact on Florida’s bar pass rankings. His 3 articles are on SSRN here:
- Blinded by Science? A reexamination of the Bar Ninja and Silver Bullet Bar Program Cryptics
- Reexamining Relative Bar Performance as a Function of Non-Linearity, Heteroscedasticity, and a New Independent Variable
- Quantifying the Impact of Matriculant Credentials & Academic Attrition Rates on Bar Exam Success at Individual Schools
FIU’s academic support team, which includes one of our editors Louis Schulze, responded last weekend in a series of blog posts. You can read the posts here:
- Does Academic Support Matter? A Brief, Preliminary Response to Blinded by Science and its Progeny
- Does Academic Support Matter? A Brief, Preliminary Response to Blinded by Science and its Progeny, Part 2
Louis’ response questions the statistical methods used in the previous articles and posits that FIU’s new Academic Support program made a statistically significant effect on bar passage rates. Rory responded to the posts with a message on the ASP listsev/google group. You should be able to access his message within that group.
Rory and Louis are engaged in a relevant and important discussion for ASP. I encourage everyone to read the articles and posts. AccessLex also published a brief post addressing this topic and one of Rory’s articles. The AccessLex authors state they are conducting a couple projects that will provide even more insight.
The academic debate surrounding this topic is necessary, but we should also recognize the reason why the debate is important and sometimes personal. While they disagree, both Rory and Louis are passionate about helping ASPers and students. They both cite the lack of tenure for ASPers as a major concern. They both argue for more resources for Academic Support. Knowing them both, I truly believe they are trying to do what is best for both ASP and students.
As long as we are trying to figure out what helps students succeed, I do want this discussion to continue in an academic manner. One of my major concerns is when schools/Deans evaluate whether ASPers are effective based primarily on bar pass rates. Bar pass rates are an easy number to stamp on a department, almost treating bar pass numbers as wins and losses. Media and other entities fuel that perception with articles about who had the highest bar pass rate in the state. FIU’s success has brought national attention from the ABA journal and other legal news sources. Deans around the country, especially ones in Florida, do specifically ask, “why isn’t [insert school] having the success of FIU? Are our people doing their job correctly?” Those outside ASP want to know, what is the secret sauce?
I also want the discussion to continue to demonstrate the impact ASP has on students. Both Louis/Raul and Rory presented at regional and national ASP conferences about best practices in teaching. Many of us agree that law school education and pedagogy needs improving. Most of us agree that better teaching would improve student learning and that we should use scientifically proven methods to teach students. We would also agree that improved student learning should have an impact on student success and bar performance. I want to know what everyone else does, including Louis and Raul, to lead to improved student performance. I especially want to read studies that quantify the impact of Academic Support and/or specific Academic Support programs. Anecdotally, we know we have an impact on individual lives. That impact matters, and should be measurable.
Promoting ASP is important to the majority of us. We need ongoing projects to measure what works and how we can all improve our students’ chances to pass the bar exam. I know we are all striving to promote each other and help students. I hope we can continue to do that.
Tuesday, January 19, 2021
ASP Foundational Scholarship Series: This series focuses on the seminal ASP/ Bar Exam scholarship that contributed to the development of academic and bar support best practices.
For the first-ever post in this series, I was stuck between two choices. So, I chose both:
1. Knaplund & Sanders, The Art and Science of Academic Support, 45 J. Legal Educ. 157 (1995).
This article was one of the earliest and most robust empirical analyses of law school academic support programs. It helped ASP faculty defend the then-controversial pedagogy of "contextualized academic support" and answer the question "Why should we spend money on an ASP?"
From the introduction:
• Our analysis of seven distinct academic support initiatives at UCLA shows that support can substantially and demonstrably improve both short-term and long-term academic performance, but the effects vary markedly across UCLA's programs.
• The variation in academic effectiveness across UCLA's programs follows distinct patterns that yield definite guidance on the pedagogy of academic support.
• We found some evidence that academic support programs can have valuable benefits apart from their impact on grades.
2. Russell McClain, Helping Our Students Reach Their Full Potential: The Insidious Consequences of Ignoring Stereotype Threat, 17 Rutgers Race & L. Rev. 1 (2016).
Coupled with Professor McClain's conference presentations on this subject and a related TEDx Talk, this article was the first to analyze the phenomenon of stereotype threat specifically as it pertains to law students. It serves as a crucial resource for ASP faculty, and all others, to understand their potential in ameliorating the effects of implicit bias in the law school classroom.
From the article abstract:
A psychological phenomenon may be a significant cause of academic underachievement by minorities in law school. This phenomenon, called stereotype threat, occurs as a result of the fear of confirming a negative group stereotype.... When subject to this threat — as a consequence of being confronted with environmental or explicit triggers — people do worse in academic settings than they otherwise are capable of doing. In this article, I explore the implications of the research on stereotype threat for law schools and make several recommendations to deal with the threat.
There are natural implications for law school admissions, of course. If a portion of our applicant pool is affected by stereotype threat, then we cannot trust the accuracy of the metrics we typically use in law school admissions, i.e., prior academic performance and LSAT scores of law school applicants. Indeed, those credentials actually may under-evaluate the academic potential of these applicants, who are often minority students. This should cause law schools to reevaluate their admissions policies.
After students are admitted, law school provides fertile ground within which stereotype threat can flourish. This, of course, means that the performance of minorities in law school — in class, on exams, and in other areas — is likely to be diminished, such that many minorities will not perform up to their academic capacity. And, obviously, we would expect this same dynamic to play out on the bar exam.
Law schools can address stereotype threat at each of these levels, and they should do so. This article lays out a framework for understanding and dealing with the threat.
(Louis N. Schulze, Jr., FIU Law).
Monday, May 25, 2020
Ordinary greatness. You’ll find it in places you never imagined and, when you do, higher performance and increased productivity are not far away. – Barbara Pagano
Last fall, a presenter at a workshop that I attended referred to the audience members as SMEs (pronounced smēz). She readily explained that SME = subject matter expert, and that those in attendance, based on our training and experience, were SMEs. As you can tell, I was tickled by the title. Before that workshop, I had not yet recognized my experience as expertise. During the workshop, and many times since, I told my imposter syndrome to kick rocks, and came to realize that the presenter was right.
Weekly, I write to and about the subject matter experts in every law school, whose expertise is designing and delivering academic enhancement and bar support programming. As my thoughts turn to this group of specialized experts, I ponder the number of meetings held, decisions made, funding resolutions, and curricular adjustments approved without any input or involvement from an ASP expert. Too often ASP expertise is overlooked, or called upon only in reaction to a problem that could have been proactively addressed, like fluctuating bar pass rates, and serving at-risk students.
In the turmoil of a global pandemic, plans for the fall semester are uncertain. The July bar exam is a hot mess topic right now. Deans, students, faculty members, examiners, and bar administrators are not sure of what the summer and fall will bring or what their next move will be. While ASP professors can’t solve any of the problems that COVID-19 has wrought, we most likely have greater insight into the learning needs of law students. Implementing decisions that affect the delivery of the program of legal education without consulting those with subject matter expertise in educational delivery, is like buying a house without a realtor. It can be done, but rarely without regret.
If we were to survey U.S. law schools, I wonder which would have ASP professors serving on or consulting with admissions committees that screen applicants to identify those most likely to successfully complete the academic program and pass a bar exam. How many law schools have a member of the ASP team on the curriculum committee where decisions that affect bar preparedness are made?
While student success is the primary concern of academic support programs, a well-structured ASP team will also complement a faculty of doctrinal experts and provide helpful teaching resources and opportunities for collaboration. It might surprise those outside of ASP to learn that experts in ASP are typically the first to know which students are struggling academically. Many students will seek out academic support assistance when they feel lost. Some, but certainly not all, professors may not become aware of a struggling student until after the one summative assessment is graded. Deans, directors, chairs, and coordinators who want to identify areas and sources of underperformance in the first-year and required curriculum could save time and resources by asking their in-house ASP experts first.
Tuesday, October 22, 2019
Today's Washington Post has a fascinating and disturbing article about the company HireVue and its signature product, an artificial intelligence hiring system through which employers can set up automated "interviews" with prospective employees. The system "uses candidates’ computer or cellphone cameras to analyze their facial movements, word choice and speaking voice before ranking them against other applicants based on an automatically generated 'employability' score." Based on these scores, HireVue's clients -- which include large organizations like Unilever and Goldman Sachs -- can choose which candidates they would like to bring in for actual human interaction.
The growing reliance of employers on HireVue and its competitors suggests several issues of interest to law students. Can we expect that someday soon, they too will be forced to welcome their new computer overlords by developing another set of skills -- namely, the art of using just the right expressions and intonations to appeal to the interviewing algorithm? How do we even know what appeals to that algorithm, and whether the appealing features actually bear any relationship to job performance, if HireVue releases no information about what it is measuring, what it assigns value to, or, indeed, even what a candidate did wrong? (The mystery and validity issues echo some complaints about the UBE, but at least bar examinees are told their scores.) Like it or not, this Pandora's boxing ring is now open, and it's only a matter of time until young attorneys are sent in to altercate.
To get some perspective on the rigor of the HireVue system, the Post reporter spoke to researchers in applicable fields, including Luke Stark, an AI researcher who was
The charisma of numbers is something I feel I run up against over and over again. And I say this as a person who values data and statistics! I believe it is difficult to make consistently effective decisions or to take wise action without obtaining and evaluating relevant numerical information. And, true, in a field in which our success is largely measured numerically (GPAs, retention rates, bar passage rates), numbers can possess either star power or infamy.
But, notwithstanding their dazzle and clout, numbers should only be powerful if they are attached to something meaningful. If they are being misused or misunderstood, that can mean mistaking the sizzle for the steak. Figures can be seductive when they seem rounded, or extravagant, or provocative, or revealing. It's easy to jump on the conspicuously appealing numbers -- the highest GPA, the apparently significant pattern in MBE scores, the increase in median starting salaries -- just as it's easy to be attracted to the confident, well-spoken cutie who walks into the party. But the GPA might be based on a disproportionate number of generously graded courses; the MBE pattern might be statistically insignificant; the median salary increase might represent slippage, not advancement, if similar schools are seeing an even larger increase. Causes, reliability, and context all matter.
The danger of the charisma of numbers is that sometimes, even when a person is only looking at the surface, they don't feel like they are being shallow, because numbers are supposed to be scientific and rational. We need to remember, and teach our students and colleagues, that, even with the most alluring numbers, you should really spend some time with them first, get to know their flaws and idiosyncrasies, before you commit to them.
Saturday, August 17, 2019
The West Coast Consortium of Academic Support Professionals is hosting their 8th Annual Conference on November 1st in Las Vegas. The theme is Technology and Data Assisted Academic Support Programming. They are accepting proposals through September 23rd. I attached an image of the flyer they sent out below.
Sunday, July 28, 2019
The sun is shining through my windows. The day is starting well. I turn on my computer, and outlook starts. The barrage of emails then piles into my inbox. I methodically answer questions about internships, class selection, the bar exam, exam taking, and other student concerns. As I finish my hour slog through email, my first student appointment comes in. We talk about life and law school. I finish the meeting and plan to work on my upcoming class. After pulling up the class schedule, I start planning the next class period. My phone vibrates (which also vibrates my watch). I get a text message about the half-price deals at Top Golf this week. I get back to thinking about my next class when my phone vibrates again. This time a group text about a kids activity. 9 messages later, I am back to thinking about class. Out of the corner of my eye, I see that my email box now has 12 emails. 3 of them can be immediately deleted, and 3 can be answered in 1 sentence. The rest take more time, so I will let them sit for now. Back to working on class, and a student needs to see me. By the end of the day, my class exercise still isn't done. Maybe tomorrow, or I may just do the same thing as last year.
Am I the only one that has this experience? Probably not. I am sure everyone has similar problems. Technology is infiltrating every second of my day, so my day includes tons of small breaks. The breaks cause me to lose focus, which in turn means I take longer to accomplish any task.
The book Deep Work by Cal Newport addresses this topic. He states that we are all so inundated with constant beeps and buzzes that our brains are being trained for only small tasks. We are addicted to the immediate need to respond or help that we can't accomplish more difficult and meaningful tasks. Deep work is when someone takes long uninterrupted time to contemplate a project. Hours of preparation and thought to innovate. Hours? I hope I get double-digit uninterrupted minutes to work on a task. His book is great at illustrating the problems with the constant interruptions and how societal breakthroughs are more difficult without high levels of focus.
Newport advocates for everyone to engage in deep work. He concedes that most people can't spend 4-5 uninterrupted hours on a project every day. However, we can only look at email at specific times. Creating routines that eliminate distractions for set periods of time can help. The goal is to not let anyone intrude on deep work time to enable quality thinking. The more time, the more we can accomplish.
Our students could use this information as well. I went to law school prior to smart phones, so I didn't have that distraction. However, the internet was enticing. One of the best things I did in law school was not connect my computer to the wifi my first 2 years. When I was studying, I couldn't check email, browse facebook, or do anything online. I read and briefed cases. I would check email when I got home. My focus during law school was probably my best focus ever. Most people don't have the willpower to not use technology. Putting phones in the other room or turning everything off is good. Eliminate distractions to improve focus.
I am working on trying to block out more time during the day for focus. Finding the time is difficult, but if I want to continually improve my programming, I need the time to think about it. Just like I tell my students, I must intentionally create quality time.
Sunday, July 7, 2019
The calendar turned to July. The heat index is climbing over 100 in Oklahoma, which also means it is time to plan the fall semester.
The difficult part of July is everything happens at the same time. The bar exam is still 3 weeks away, but I can’t wait until after the bar to plan for the fall. The semester will start only a couple weeks later, and in an attempt to follow my own advice, I take time off right after the exam. The timing means fall planning must happen now.
I am sure many in ASP have a similar timeframe. When thinking about the fall, I wanted to pass along a few tips:
- Look back at the AASE materials. AASE presenters provide numerous ideas. Implementing the great ideas is the more difficult part, but one way to increase the chance of implementing them is to re-read those ideas now.
- Review feedback from last year. If students provide constructive feedback, then look through the feedback prior to creating syllabi or programming. Small changes each year can make a big difference. However, ignore any non-constructive criticism.
- Analyze notes and materials from last year. I suggest writing down what works and doesn’t work throughout the year. Look at those notes to see what changes are needed.
- Decide on a few new things to integrate. Don’t try to remake the entire ASP program in one semester/year.
The summer is winding down, fortunately or unfortunately depending on who you talk to. Many professors are planning for the fall. Spending the few extra minutes looking at great ideas, feedback, and notes can gradually improve programming.
Monday, June 3, 2019
Don't let compliments get to your head and don't let criticism get to your heart. -- Lysa TerKeurst
The other day we held a bar workshop at my school. At the end of the session we collected evaluation forms from the students. I could hardly wait until the students were all out of the room to look at their written comments. A colleague and I sat at the edges of our seats to read what the students wrote about “our” workshop. As we thumbed through the evaluation forms, we read an abundance of smile-generating comments like: Good, Good, Excellent, Learned something new, Would recommend this session to others, and Glad I came. But our smiles askewed when we reached the one comment that read this session was longer than I expected and the presentation was poor.
Of the many laudatory comments, only one offered anything other than praise. And yet that one evaluation form is all that we focused on for the rest of the afternoon. My colleague and I became defensive and responded to the anonymous feedback as if talking to the student who submitted it. I suspect that our reaction was not atypical in the academic support teaching profession. We probably reacted in the same manner that many professors do as we review our course evaluation forms, student emails, or other summative feedback. We focus almost blindly on what someone did not like at the expense of commentary reflecting the effectiveness of our teaching and service.
So many of us in academic support or other teaching professions may put too much weight on the criticism and not enough weight on the compliments. Perhaps it is because we invest so much in the success of our students and the excellency of our programs that we forget the role that criticism can play in our own professional development. As this summer’s bar prep gets rolling full throttle, I’ve made a promise to myself to not let my view of the forest be impeded by one tall tree. While I am providing my students with daily affirmations, I pledge to affirm and nurture myself and my wellbeing. In doing so, I will be better able to service my family and my students who depend on me. As you read your course evaluations and performance reviews this summer, challenge yourselves to take criticism with a grain of salt (or a bottle of wine) and be thankful for the wonderful learning opportunity that the feedback provides.
Monday, May 20, 2019
As my career in ASP winds down, I have reflected on what I have learned over the years. Here are a few things that strike me as important lessons learned from discussions with my ASP/bar prep colleagues, observations of our profession over time, and my own experiences:
- ASP and bar prep work have gained more recognition through the years. LSAC supported us early on. AALS recognized our efforts with a section designation. Changes to ABA standards brought more attention to our roles. More law schools now have programs, but there is still work to be done if all law students are to have access to full-time, funded services.
- ASP/bar prep started its work to increase academic and bar success for minority students. With the pressures of stigma and backlash, many ASP programs opened services to all law students. Although programs may still have minority components within the services, the broader law school population has now become the focus. Declining admissions (and the resulting decline in applicant credentials in some cases) and ABA emphasis on bar passage rates have continued the pressure for services to be available to all law students. Let us not forget our original purpose of supporting diversity as our roles expand.
- The work we do is not just about grades or bar passage. We teach skills that impact our graduates throughout their lives. We teach skills resulting in better lawyering and more satisfying living. Among the skills we teach are learning strategies, legal reasoning, problem solving, organizing work, managing time, managing stress, and avoiding procrastination.
- We need to be careful that we do not just jump from the "hot topic or solution of the month" to the next hot topic. It is tempting, but ultimately shallow. There is no magic wand available for ASP or bar prep. Learning, memory, and legal reasoning are complex topics with layers of nuance. To those three, we must add the topics of diversity, motivation, procrastination, learning disabilities, time management, work management, stress management, resilience, grit, mindset, and mental health - also very complex and nuanced. I could easily list another dozen topics that relate to our work. We need to investigate deeply to understand the nuances, remain open to intertwined concepts, and build successful strategies over time.
- The numbers game is not all that matters. It is nice if large numbers enroll in courses or attend workshops, but numbers alone do not tell the story. Our work regularly impacts on an individual level. We need to remember that assisting one student at a time is valuable. Let us not forget the merit of one-on-one assistance during our law schools' demand for numbers to tout.
- We need to provide alternative methods for students to access our services. Some services may involve mandatory appointments, workshops, or courses. However, even mandatory offerings may not reach all students who need help or may fail to reach them at the time when they are most receptive. We need to continue to explore different ways to reach students where they are and when they are receptive to services. The possibilities are endless, but include appointments, workshops, packets, handouts, email tips, podcasts, blog posts, YouTube videos, Facebook, Twitter, intranet pages, pop-up events, and walk-abouts.
- We need to remember that each student is unique. One size does not fit all, no matter what theory suggests. Each student comes with individual strengths, weaknesses, challenges, motivations, educational backgrounds, and experiences. We cannot forget the individual when we consider our repertoire of theories, generalities, and strategies.
- We need to ask questions and listen to the answers. I learn some of the best strategies from students explaining what they have discovered. In the search for the combination of strategies for each student, we need to explore with the student what works, does not work, needs to be modified, or needs to be tossed.
- We want students to succeed and are personally involved in their learning. However, ultimately the student must implement the strategies, eschew bad habits, and work to achieve success. Despite our best efforts, some students will not reach their full academic potential and may even fail academically or fail the bar repeatedly. It exemplifies the old adage of leading a horse to water.
- Working 60-70 hours per week (and often more) is the temptation in ASP/bar prep because we want to implement new programs, stay up with professional development, be available to students, show up at events to support them, and answer emails at all times of the day and night. However, working at such a pace leads to burnout and ultimately does not help us or our students. We need to model the work-life balance that we regularly recommend to our students.
- Have faith in your own expertise and the" best practices" that match your law school's culture. The variety of law schools means that one size does not fit all. Be open to ideas and weigh their value for your law school situation. ASP/bar prep colleagues are willing to share ideas and expertise - usually for free. Read the Law School Academic Support Blog, post queries on the Law School Academic Support listserv, attend AASE and AALS conferences or other regional workshops, and reach out to experienced colleagues. However, be wary of anyone who tells you there is one and only one (that is, the individual's own) path to "best practices" in ASP/bar prep; that viewpoint is just not accurate.
- No matter how dedicated and expert we are in our work, our law schools have to provide the facilities and resources for us to do our work well. Without commitments for space, budget, staffing, support services, and equal status, we will be limited in achieving the greatest results for our students. Talk is cheap. It takes actions from each and every law school in support of our ASP and bar professionals to make a difference.
ASP/bar prep work is challenging, impactful, rewarding, and gratifying. We can be proud of what we do each day. What we accomplish is important. We need all law schools to recognize how important our work is for our students' academic success and for their futures. (Amy Jarmon)
Sunday, April 21, 2019
The NY Regional ASP Workshop is a leader for many reasons. If my history is correct (which it may not be), NY was the first of the regional ASP workshops. I remember asking Kris how it started and for any advice in starting one in the southwest, and she said to just do it (which we did). This year, they had another great idea to collect thoughts on what ASPers wish they had known when they started. With Kris' permission, I combined her emails and posted the responses below so we can forward the information to new people in the community each year. Here is the list they created:
- There is a big and supportive academic support community. Use it!
- You are valuable. You bring knowledge and expertise that students—especially contemporary students—need to not only succeed in law school, but in the practice of law. Don’t underestimate the impact you have on students, whether or not you see an immediate outcome.
- No two students are the same. It’s fun to try to figure out each one, and to create an individualized solution and plan with him/her.
- Don’t try to do everything at once when building new programming—choose one thing at a time; focus and develop it, and then add more. Meet 1-on-1 with faculty to learn more about students and about faculty concerns about your students.
- Don’t shy away from hard conversations with both students and Sometimes you are the one who can see the realities of a situation, and your opinion is important. And one they need to hear.
- Realize exactly how time-consuming ASP is and how hard it is to get to the point of having individual trust and a personal relationship with every student. But just know that the payoff of getting a phone call (not an email) from a student saying “THANK YOU, I PASSED THE BAR” is so incredibly rewarding.
- I wish I had a better understanding of the politics of legal education in general and as it relates to ASP in particular. As a new person, it’s important to learn some of the history without taking on battles that belong to others. Give yourself space to listen and learn, but be a neutral observer for as long as you can until you get a sense of the politics and can begin to develop your own vision.
- Don’t remain in the ASP silo—make faculty allies! But do learn from all the ASPers who came before you. Read, read, read.
- Know the budget! I wish I knew more about resource allocation.
- Help students place class exercises in context. Meet with 1L professors, sit in on their classes, and develop an understanding of when they are doing and why. Where needed, translate for students so they can grasp what they are being asked to do and why.
- I wish I’d known how much patience, stamina, and support from my family and partner I would need for this work, even more than I expected. And I wish I had known how much technology can bolster information transmission and learning.
- Don’t let your students’ issues become your issues.
- Don’t give away your skills, value and expertise. Ask for status, security, and money. Really.
- That doing ASP work can be even more rewarding if you’re doing it at a school that has a mission you feel inspired by and aligned with.
- Students in a panic are usually looking for a strong voice pointing out a clear path. Don’t be afraid to tell them the work they have to do.
- Students feel so much more overwhelmed and intimidated about managing their time than I would have guessed!
- Don’t underestimate the power of anxiety and lack of confidence in undermining student success.
- Without failure there is no learning. Share your own humanity and failure. Students see you as human, fallible, and successful.
- You will burn out if you try to bring the “magic” to every student. Don’t neglect your own soul. HOLD BOUNDARIES, respect yourself, respect your students.
- Never forget the importance of building relationships and culture with your students. Your upper-class peer models are extremely valuable and get you insights on your students’ experiences that you will never have on your own. (And seeing them is another reminder that you can, indeed already have, made a difference.)
- “It takes a village” really applies in ASP. I was expecting more of a competitive attitude, and I pleasantly surprised to find out how willing other ASPers were to share their strategies. Ask others what they are doing, what has worked, and what flopped—they will tell you!
Monday, April 1, 2019
ASP hiring season is in full swing. Some schools are adding a new position while others are just adding a new person to a current position. Schools will start planning the tasks and projects for new hires. Many plans will focus on immediate needs of bar takers or the upcoming 1L program. Don’t forget to also plan for observation and feedback from this new outside perspective.
We have all heard stories about outside ASP faculty coming to a law school and basically telling the faculty the same thing the internal ASP director said for years. The outside perspective grabbed them though. The same thing happens with students. Other faculty, students, or bar prep lecturers can say the same thing as the bar prep director, but students have an epiphany talking to someone else. Outside perspectives have influence. Nancy did a great job discussing the phenomenon in her post last week.
Schools can utilize the outside expert experience to evaluate our programs. Outside sources’ unbiased perspective can provide unique insight for program improvement. Business leaders say a new employee’s view is the most valuable the first 2-4 months. They aren’t entrenched in the status quo or how programs always run. They bring in insight from previous experience and tend to ask why we do certain actions. The insight and questions can help shine light into areas for improvement in our departments.
Many of us have a great opportunity. When new people arrive in our department, have them provide observations after their first month or two. Encourage them to evaluate the program and provide their perspective. The insight could illuminate some of our blind spots.
Monday, March 25, 2019
Researchers using advanced technology discover more about how we learn all the time, and non-stop communication disseminates the information almost immediately. ASP conferences are rich with presentations of new understandings of how to study. The new research and the ability for all of us to access it invites integration to our programs and communication to our students. Is it possible to over rely on new theories to our students’ detriment?
I wrote a blog post last year within the first couple months of contributing discussing how I conveyed learning theories to my students and my thoughts on how the communication would help them learn. The feedback from students and my experience teaching the course a few times demonstrated to me the message may not be sinking in.
Understanding and communicating learning theory to our students shouldn’t be detrimental, but I encourage everyone to use moderation. Just like most things in life (carbs, chocolate, Netflix, Facebook), too much can cause problems, except the chocolate of course. I more than doubled my understanding of how we learn in the last couple years, and I probably overshared the information to students. I thought students wanted to understand why I recommended certain actions, so I assigned articles about the different concepts. The response was almost universal disdain, which was a little surprising. To be fair, a few articles were extremely long, but most of them were only a few pages.
I experienced a phenomenon we already knew, and I should have approached the solution slightly different. In general, people believe they know how to study and learn. Students believe if they were successful in the past, what he/she did was correct. Trying to tell law students in their first semester prior to grades coming out that what they did in the past to achieve A’s wouldn’t work did not cause students to follow my advice. Providing the research to back up my recommendations only frustrated students because they didn’t want additional reading because they already believed they knew the best way to study for them.
If students are resisting, then is communicating the information a waste of time or even detrimental? I believe the answer is still a clear no. My class probably moved too far away from the practical into the justification and theory discussion. Students want what will help them now. Study techniques won’t impact grades tomorrow, but we can integrate interleaving, spaced repetition, testing effect, self-regulated learning, and any other research without over-emphasizing the theory behind the recommendation. We can also integrate activities into our classes using those theories without explicitly justifying the activity. Our approach will make the difference.
In academic support and education in general, many discussions revolve around outcomes. What do we want our students to know or do when they leave the classroom? I would argue we want our students to use proper study habits based on the theories throughout law school, not just understand the concepts. Demonstrating how to study and walking students through the process will most likely produce that outcome more than students merely understanding the why behind the study technique. When students start to question recommendations, then we can refer students to resources or provide supplemental material. I found a handful of really short youtube videos that explain concepts much better than long articles. Even those are still too much if students don’t need the additional information. We can also focus on fewer techniques. Instead of trying to make our students perfect learners, we can strive to make them better learners. Small incremental changes for them can have a lasting impact.
Students in our classrooms are faced with information overload. They have access to more information than ever before, and they encounter new legal information daily. Adding to the deluge of information may not be our best approach. Practical application is what I plan to strive for going forward.
Tuesday, March 19, 2019
One of the most stimulating -- though, at times, overwhelming -- aspects of working in Academic Success is the necessity of performing in all the rings under the law school circus tent. In the same day, we can be teaching substantive law, providing feedback to help improve a student's writing and legal analysis, coaching another student on skills like time management or effective study, and counseling other students who are anxious, unmotivated, discouraged, or overconfident. To me, the counseling portion seems to be the most draining. Even when it is not taking up the greater part of my week -- and that is not always the case -- working with students' emotions, their self-awareness, their conceptions of what they are capable of, and their unrecognized assumptions requires high levels of energy and attentiveness. Anything that might make that part of the job easier without shortchanging my students would be gratefully welcomed.
To that end, I've been reading an interesting article called Wise Interventions: Psychological Remedies for Social and Personal Problems, written by the psychologists Gregory M. Walton and Timothy D. Wilson (Psychological Review (2018), 125(5), pp. 617-655). The authors explain that much of what either restrains or enhances our achievements does so because of how we perceive it, ourselves, and/or our place in the world. For example, a student who perceives her professor's probing Socratic questioning as demonstrating confidence in the student may learn more, and feel more confident about what they have retained, than another student who perceives the professor's intense questioning as disdain or ridicule. Much depends on the subjective meaning that a person has assigned to himself ("I am clever/I am stupid/I am not good at math"), to his environment ("The professor doesn't like me/This subject is useless in the real world/That law firm only hires students in the top 5%" ), and to the interactions between the two ("I always screw up on multiple-choice questions/There's nobody in this class who would be willing to share notes with me/If I go to office hours the professor will think I can't handle the material.") The article points out that many of the techniques that have been demonstrated to produce lasting behavioral change with comparatively little effort on the part of coaches or intervenors do so because they help to change ineffective subjective meanings that the student had used previously into meanings that are naturally more likely to produce good results. For example, incoming African American college students participated in a one-hour discussion section at the start of the school year, in which stories told by former students were used to convey the idea that it is normal to feel, at first, that you "don't belong" in college, and that after a while that feeling goes away. Participating students had higher grades over the next three years than did similar students who did not join the discussion session. Walton and Wilson call these techniques "wise interventions" because those who used them are aware of ("wise to") the maladaptive meanings that some subjects have adopted, and therefore can more successfully change those meanings.
This is a dense and rich article, one I will have to return to a few times here, but today I wanted to point out three of the five general principles the authors suggest characterize a "wise intervention". These three principles are all about how to effectively change maladaptive assigned meanings, and I think they can help us in Academic Support as we try to find new ways to help our students make the most of themselves and their environments.
The first principle is that in order to effectively alter ineffective perceptions, the explanations we offer in exchange have to be detailed and specific. It was not enough, for example, to say to incoming college students, "College is tough on everyone. You'll get over it." Instead, researchers used the detailed stories of former students to illustrate the specific feelings that incoming students often experience, and the journey that those students went through, so that the incoming students could more clearly relate to and remember those stories when they encountered similar feelings. Similarly, in law school, it may not be enough just to tell 1L students that law school is going to be harder than any educational experience they've had in the past. Instead, we need to tell our own stories, and the stories of other law students and alumni, to better illustrate some of the specific obstacles that were faced and then overcome. Having those details to recall can help insure that 1L students will interpret their setbacks and difficulties as part of the usual law student experience.
Another principle is that, once we help students to generate more useful interpretations of themselves and their environments, these interpretations can lead to further recursive change in the future. A student introduced to the concept of the "growth mindset", for instance, may at first only accept its existence in a certain context, like the ability to memorize content. However, as the student experiences success in that context, it becomes more likely that she will start to apply the growth mindset concept in other realms, such as making oral presentations or writing effectively under time pressure. This is one of the chief benefits of a wise intervention: because of the possibility of recursive change, a comparatively small effort on the part of a counselor or coach can produce a lifetime of benefits.
However, the possibility of such recursion depends in part on a recognition of a third principle: the fact that the meanings that people assign to themselves and to their worlds all operate within complex systems of past experiences, present conditions, and future expectations. In practical terms, this means that merely changing a student's meaning-making is not likely, by itself, to take root and produce extensive future benefits; there must also be some kind of change to the system in which the student operates. It is not enough, for example, to get students to see that they have the analytical tools they need to respond properly to multiple-choice questions, and that such questions are not simply an opaque collection of "tricks", unless we also provide those students will access to practice questions upon which to apply their new view of the genre, along with answer explanations so the students will be able to confirm that the analytical approach is indeed the most effective. Changing your students' interpretation of themselves or of the law school environment should always be either in response to, or accompanied by, some kind of practical change to the rest of the system in which they operate, in order to give the students the opportunity to test and cultivate their new understandings.
This last bit is the part I want to incorporate more into my own teaching and advising. Whenever something seems to click for a student and they seem to recognize a possible new way of interpreting the world, that's a spark. Academic success depends not just upon generating such sparks, but also upon providing kindling so that the spark doesn't go out.
Monday, March 11, 2019
St. Mary's did an excellent job hosting SWCASP and the UBE conference last week. Zoe Niesel and Mike Barry put together a great slate of presenters and provided awesome Texas food staples. I wasn't able to make the UBE portion, but I will pass along a synopsis of the SWCASP presentations in case you missed it.
The theme this year was collaboration, and the presenters showcased a range of collaboration ideas. I personally liked the theme and ideas because I take on more classes, projects, etc. than reasonably possible. The ideas were great for trying to get others to also use academic support to help students.
Zoe and Mike started the workshop with a discussion of how they integrated ASP with the 1L LRW class. Instead of having a LRW class and a separate ASP skills class, they combined the two into one class. They created consistent dialogue and terminology for students. The collaboration also influenced more of the 1L curriculum.
Halle Hara described a great way to get different departments discussing student needs. She created a committee consisting of everyone with individual student interactions. The committee meets once a month to discuss specific student needs. I saw 2 big takeaways from this presentation. The first was the committee created communication channels to provide context to everyone helping students in his/her office. The second takeaway was how to make referrals more efficient. I send students to other people throughout campus for financial aid help, discussions with Associate Dean, etc. However, following up with every other administrator is difficult. The committee is able to quickly determine if students followed up with the referral.
Jacquelyn Rogers uses outside professionals to help her students more effectively. She brings in performance coaches to help with attention training and mindsets. Listening to her, I immediately thought about issues we see in millennial students and how an outside professional could help our students thrive. I also liked that her mental health professional was setup in a suite type setting with other offices so students could not tell who other students were visiting.
Wendy Scott, Mindy Cyr, Charles Splawn, and Jenny Lane discussed Elon's program for inter-department interaction. Their bar mentorship program is much better than the mentor programs I tried in the past. Faculty, alumni, and career services are paired with students to help them throughout bar prep. Students can send essays or ask general questions throughout the summer. Faculty hold in-person or call in office hours for specific subjects. The substance paired with the general checking in seems to generate more participation. I definitely want to use a few of these ideas to get more individual student interaction with faculty during the summer.
Preyal Shah and Meijken Westenskow demonstrated a great self-assessment exercise. Their exercise used different colored highlighters for the different sections of an essay answer (pink for rule, blue for conclusion, etc.). Students would highlight each sentence of both their work and a model answer. The visual differences help students see where they need to improve. UNT uses this exercise 1L year and returns to it during the 3L bar prep class to help self-assessment during summer months.
Cassie Christopher presented her upcoming article titled "Normalizing Struggle." Her presentation and subsequent paper describes how students should struggle through the learning process and how we can help approach teaching to help students understand struggle is normal. She referenced an article I will definitely read titled "Unskilled and Unaware of it." That article describes the challenges and deficiencies of current education, which is now our incoming students.
The next session included a panel moderated by Sara Berman. Sara asked Jennifer Carr and Staci Rucker questions about how academic support could team with student affairs. They discussed the need to help students with issues beyond academics. Working with student affairs, ASPers could focus on academics while still helping with other issues that affect academics. Student affairs professionals can use their contacts with financial aid and other departments to help with all aspects of students' experience.
The last panel finished the collaboration theme with Marsha Griggs, Goldie Pritchard, Toni Miceli, and Cassie Christopher discussing their victories and mistakes working with faculty, commercial vendors, and students. It is always good to see that others have similar struggles with different constituencies within the law school. They had great ideas for getting faculty involved from small efforts of holding office hours during the summer to providing short lectures. Toni's commercial vendor guidelines are great if you are looking to create new guidelines for vendors on campus.
Just like every year, SWCASP was a blast. I have a list of ideas to consider for the summer and next year. If any of the programs sound interesting, definitely contact the presenter. They are all open to discussing their programs further. As many of us know, don't reinvent the wheel each year. Use others successes (and failures) to help your students.
Thursday, March 7, 2019
Here's a great opportunity for academic support professionals interested in serving on the ABA Council of the Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar. Per the ABA announcement, there are both at-large positions and leadership positions. https://www.americanbar.org/councilnominationinfo. If interested, here's the link to nominate yourself or others: https://americanbar.qualtrics.com/. Nominations are due by Monday, April 1, 2019. (Scott Johns).
Monday, December 3, 2018
Finals are starting, and if your office is like mine, most students only come around for emergencies. I may have a few students asking doctrinal questions or for a few more tips, but in general, my office is quieter during finals weeks. I use that time to finish grading and reflect on my classes to try to improve them for the next iteration.
I tell students about self-regulated learning at orientation. I implore them to constantly evaluate their progress and make improvements. Studying isn’t the only area where the steps of self-regulated learning is applicable. We can use those steps when developing and improving our classes.
Finals weeks and the week before Christmas break is a good time for reflection. With a little quieter office, analyzing courses is easier than when attending to constant emergencies. Finals time is also good because classes just ended. You may remember a little better what worked and what didn’t work. I find it difficult to remember what I didn’t like if I don’t teach the course again until the following year. Right now is much better for evaluating courses.
I suggest analyzing the course structure, in-class exercises, and the homework. Categorize each activity or course choice as works great, decent, and failed miserably. I know variations among those categories exist, but the idea is to identify what you must keep, what must go, and what could be better but not necessary to change now. I provided a few considerations below when looking at the 3 categories. Make sure to specifically write down the assessment and note the changes now before forgetting them.
Course structure is the big picture of the class. Some considerations are:
- Did the course achieve its objectives?
- Did the course flow logically through the semester?
- Should the topics be in a different order?
- Do students need context or other knowledge to better prepare for the topics?
In-class exercises are great when they work well, but sometimes exercises fail miserably. Think about each exercise and consider:
- Did the exercise achieve its purpose?
- Did the exercise further the lesson/topic of the day?
- Did the exercise need additional instructions to run smoother?
- Did the setup take too long?
- Did it take too long to get the class back on task after completing the exercise?
- How many students completed the exercise poorly or failed to complete the exercise?
- Was there ample time to achieve the goal of the exercise?
- In a perfect world, what would I change about the exercise?
Many professors, including myself, spend significant time preparing for class instruction but don’t think as much about homework. Sometimes homework is reading cases or rewriting essays. Homework should further our goals within the class. Being deliberate with each homework assignment can help support learning in the classroom. Analyze:
- Does the homework flow with the class discussion?
- Is there good formative assessment in the homework?
- Did the homework integrate spaced repetition?
- Did the homework further the class discussion or improve skills?
- Did the course assign too much writing homework so the instructor couldn’t reasonably provide feedback on the work?
- Was the instructor able to provide any feedback using homework?
- Did students understand the homework’s purpose?
Now is the time to evaluate our courses and write down what we should change. I forget the changes I want to make until I see the problem again the next year, so I start making notes and changes earlier. My suggestions are not a comprehensive list. The goal is continued evaluation to make courses better. We can all do that.